"Looking for a Liturgical Church near you?" (moderately long)
So it says with the link on the right hand margin of the page. To make a long story short, I was received into the LCMS from a Reformed denomination after several years of study attempting to obtain a reasonably good understanding of Lutheran theology and practice. My teachers included some who have posted on this site and others who are well known in the orthodox Lutheran community. Others are long since deceased including the first Martin, the second Martin and a guy named Sasse. I think that after reading enough of them, I have a relatively good understanding of what a law/gospel sermon is. I also believe I have a good understanding of who the pastor represents in the DS and why he is a male and not a female. I could go on but I hope you get the drift of my perspective which I believe to be consistent with the purpose and the goals of this site.
Now, back to the original subject. My problem is not finding a liturgical church. I am within reasonable driving distance of several LCMS churches that use the traditional liturgy. But there are other problems with all of them. One has no real law/gospel sermons. You can hear about God's love for you and his grace to you in vague and wishy-washy terms but nothing concerning what God really thinks about you vis-a-vis the Law and nothing regarding the fact that God loves you and grants you his salvation only because of his Son. In other words, just some weak law and maybe even weaker gospel. There is nothing Christ-centered and the theology of glory rules the day. Another church has reasonable sermons sometimes but engages in other bad practices. Unconfirmed children and women participate in the DS as readers of Scripture. I have even seen a woman reader literally break down to cry and I was afraid she was going Jimmy Swaggert on me. Not good from my view. In a third nearby church, a woman, the pastor's wife no less, not only reads Scripture in the DS but also "preaches" the children's sermon that precedes the regular sermon. Also not good but probably the worst thing about all this is that I am apparently the only person that has a problem with any of these things in any of these churches including the churches elders who I believe have responsibility for reigning these practices in.
Have I discussed these issues with any of these pastors? Yes I have and to a man they all have the same standard reply. They contend there is nothing unbiblical about any of them and they will discuss it no further. I was even told off the record that all of them would prefer that dissenters just leave their midst rather have on going discussions concerning the woman issue. I was also told that at least one of these pastors believes women should be ordained. Although I completely disagree with the idea that the Bible is silent on these things, its clear that they will not change what they are doing and frankly they are downright arrogant about it. So is there another link here that will tell me how to find an orthodox church with good practices (in the LCMS preferably and not too far away) and not just a liturgical one? Or perhaps I am just asking for too much? Thanks in advance.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rick on -
Thanks Suzee. For a couple of reasons those are not alternatives for me. Also, I am reasonably convinced that I will not find the church I am looking for near me. They all seem to have similar issues and none are what I was expecting. I posted this primarily to generate some feedback regarding my perspective. I would like to hear from others if I am wrong to have my expectations and if I am out of line. Should I just accept these practices and realize that the things I understood a Lutheran church to be are just idealistic ideas found in books and essays and not actually available in the real world? As I said I came in the door with what I believed to be a reasonable foundation of Lutheran theology and not a single church in my area is even remotely in the ball park. I still attend church to receive the sacrament and to receive absolution of sins even though I am uncomfortable about women and unconfirmed children reading HS in the DS, but when I need to hear a sound sermon I crank up Pastor Cwirla and others. Is the problem me or am I just in an abnormally weak area for churches? Although I am still basically confident in my views, I am also starting to doubt myself a little and wondering if I am expecting too much. And Robert, if I am wrong to post this on here please let me know.
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Permalink Reply by Charles Randow on -
Rick,
Your story sounds familiar to me, as I have experienced similar situations in the past and I know of some close family members (who do not live near me) who would also attest to a similar experience. In my situation, I found the church with the best practice I could find (for example, there were no women elders permitted) and I regularly read sermons from orthodox pastors, as you seem to be doing. My family members do a similar thing, and have even visited this church-away-from-home when on travel (I believe they were visiting some friends one summer and made a detour to visit this particular church).
I do not think that you are asking too much, though. But I will leave my comments at that.
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Permalink Reply by Jeffrey A. Schneider on -
Try this list: http://issuesetc.org/findachurch/
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Permalink Reply by Rick on
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Jeffrey, thanks very much for the link. Unfortunately the closest one on the list is about 75 miles away. Just for an update concerning how things are going in my current church, I learned two things in Sunday's sermon. One is that Caucasians are the only race that has ever engaged in racism and food stamps are actually a good thing. Don't ask me how the pastor managed to work that into a sermon but awhile back he also claimed Martin Luther King was a role model for our sanctification.
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Permalink Reply by Rev. James R Shaw on -
Rick,
Your are not the only one who struggles with finding a good confessional liturgical Lutheran church close. I deal with this all the time as a missionary pastor. People compromise all kinds of stuff just so they do not have to travel far to a quality church. One person I know had an LCMS mission start in their area but it was filled with so much questionable stuff they had to drive 100 miles one way to get to a decent LCMS church. That person and their family know what it means to be a confessional Lutheran. You likewise might have to seriously consider making that 75 mile trip every Sunday or maybe every other Sunday. It's a great lesson to your kids. They will remember this and know what you truly value as a Christian and as a Lutheran.
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